Author Topic: Replacement for NY 30's  (Read 6830 times)

Adam

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Replacement for NY 30's
« on: June 10, 2013, 08:20:13 PM »
I was reading that in 1934/5 when the NYYC was looking to replace their small racing class the NY 30 - The HMCo put forth a proposal for a 50' loa, 33" lwl. one design.  Ultimately the NYYC went with the S&S designed NY 32. Question - what was the HMCo proposal? what model # and was a prototype built?

Steve

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 01:06:17 PM »
Now that's a good question.  I wonder if Mr. Langerman may be able to answer that question from any of his design notebooks?

Charles Barclay

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 02:25:26 PM »
I think the answer is in Herreshoff of Bristol by Maynard Bray and Carleton Pinheiro.

Adam

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2013, 03:45:54 PM »
Well I just moved and my entire library looks like the basement of the Smithsonian....I really should take pics as its quite entertaining.... I'll rummage through and see if I can find said book without killing myself....

HerreshoffHistory

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 11:29:39 AM »
"There has been talk for a long time of bringing out a new class which will take the place of the venerable New York Yacht Club Thirty-footers and the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company, which designed and built the famous class back in 1905, has been planning on producing a "modernization" of the boat.

The plans on this page represent the new Herreshoff "Thirty Foot" class, though it is now really a 33 foot class, slightly larger, and with longer ends than the old Thirties. The new class is auxiliary, and measures 33 feet waterline, 50 feet overall, 10 feet 6 inches beam and 6 feet 10 inches draft. The sail area, in a modern all-inboard rig, is 1,120 square feet, only 17 square feet more than appears in the old gaff sloop rig of the original Thirty. Roller reefing gear is indicated.

Provision is made for a small auxiliary power plant, which, though not indicated on the plans, must be an off-center installation.

The arrangement plan seems to follow along the same general lines as that of the old New York Thirty, though of course there is a bit more room. The bulkhead arrangement forward around the mast is quite the same and it is likely that the same big hanging knees which come in the way of the bulkheads at the skin in the old Thirty, will appear in the new boat." (Source: Anon. "A New Thirty Foot Class by Herreshoff." Rudder, December 1934, p. 37.)

It would have been a wonderful boat, complete with signature New York 30 deckhouse and row of rectangular windows. But less of an ocean racer and that may have contributed to the Sparkman & Stephens-designed New York 32 having been chosen.

It is interesting to contemplate the relationship between this design and the California 32, designed by Nicolas Potter the next year. In 1934 Potter had still worked at the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company, and though we may assume that the NY30 replacement was designed by A. S. deW. Herreshoff, we do not know how much Potter was able to influence the design or if it influenced him when he designed the Cal 32. There are certainly links.

The above-quoted Rudder article also showed sailplan and accomodation plan. Five plans are also in the Hart Nautical Collection at M.I.T., including a construction plan.

A small version of this boat was also designed in November 1934 (a month after the NY30 replacement proposal had been designed). Also unbuilt, it would have been 34'-6" LOA, 24'-0" LWL, 8' beam, and 5' draft.

Adam

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 02:25:20 PM »
Thanks HH -  I couldn't find an appropriate model in the inventory - So no model was ever carved? Just proposal drawings....?

Charles Barclay

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 07:38:36 AM »
From Herreshoff of Bristol p. 162:

Grayling [a Q boat still sailing in Puget Sound] was a prototype of a proposed replacement for the venerable Herreshoff New York 30-Class Sloops.

From Guide to Haffenraffer-Herreshoff Collection1923 Build, Knockabout. Price $9,250. 

From Olin Stephens All This and Sailing Too pp90-92 comes this:

Twenty of the class were built at the Nevins yard. I know that Drake [Sparkman] was the principal reason we were given this project, and not only for his sales talents; he had organized the offering with Nevins, the builder, and the sailmaker, Ratsey, to provide a simple, complete package.

And from the Newyork32.org website:

In 1935, when the New York Yacht Club was looking for boats to replace the "Thirties" created by Herreshoff, their requirements included blue water seaworthiness in addition to grace and quickness. Olin Stephens and the Nevins Yard met the challenge, specifying oak frames (1 5/8" on 8" centers), heavy Philippine mahogany planking, and a low, solid deck house, all without sacrificing speed or beauty. Originally priced at $11,000, the New York 32's have stood the test of time, with about two-thirds of the original fleet still sailing.


Looks like NYYC members wanted to ocean race. 

Adam

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Re: Replacement for NY 30's
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 06:17:32 PM »
I think we may be talking two separate things when it comes to the info on Grayling - Which was designed/built in 1923 - approximately 11-13 years before the NYYC request. I assume Nat had an "upgrade" in mind for the 30's for some time and Grayling may have been it  - but it appears that by the time the NYYC actually asked for a replacement it took a whole different approach was taken - with the key being offshore capable - IE Ocean racing. Not surprising in that the CCA mindset was really taking over by then. I wonder what made the Herreshoff boat not meet that requirement - especially if Potter had influence? Wonder if she would have been called a NY 33? HH - You have any pics?