Author Topic: S-Class Gob and Uncas  (Read 65414 times)

HerreshoffHistory

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S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: December 02, 2010, 11:05:26 AM »
Something is fishy here with Gob and Uncas. Look them up in the Registry. Was there a mixup? Perhaps Gob is really gone? Opinions?

"This season will be the third that the one-designed Herreshoff class 'S' knockabouts have been raced at Marblehead, and while a number of the original owners continue to be interested in the class, there have been a number of changes in the personal of the Corinthians sailing these yachts since last year.
Early last fall the Gob [#828s] was sold by Nathaniel F. Ayer to a Portland yachtsman, thus taking that yacht away from local water. In addition, neither the Doodah [#837s], owned  by Lincoln and Benjamin Davis, nor the Kajee [#835s], owned by Chester L. Dane and Charles W. Jaynes, will be raced this Summer if the present plans of the owners are carried out.
To partly counteract the loss of these three yachts to the class, the Uncas[#???], purchased this spring by Gifford K. Simonds of the Corinthian and Eastern Yacht Club, has been added to the racing fleet. This knockabout was at Marblehead all of last season but was never raced or even under sail throughout the 1921 season. The Uncas probably will be handled in in the racing for Mr. Simonds by 'Bill' Brown of Marblehead, who is well known along the North Shore as a very clever skipper." (Source: Anon. "Yachts and Yachtsmen." Boston Globe, June 18, 1922, p. 55.)

"... It is reported that the Herreshoff one-design 'S' knockabout Gob recently sold by E. H. Randall of Portland to a New York yachtsman sank in the Cape Cod Canal while making the trip from Portland to Long Island Sound waters. ..." (Source: Anon. "Notes From The Week's Log." Boston Globe, September 3, 1922, p. 57.)

"... One more addition to the Marhlehead Rainbow Class, the Herreshoff-one-designed S knockabouts. Blue, green, yellow, and brown are the prevailing topside colors, but the Boblink, ex-Red Snapper, purchased last Winter by Walworth Pierce, has been painted with a seven-inch boottop of brown above the green underbody, with the remainder of the topsides black. ..." (Source: Anon. "Notes of The Week's Log." Boston Globe, June 3, 1923, p. 71.)

Steve

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 12:08:11 PM »
This is an interesting situation.  The information currently in the Registry was taken from the 1994 Upham register.

I am reasonably certain GOB is still extant, currently named ENTERPRISE.  I have corresponded on several occasions with her owner, Gregg Germain.  He has the plate.  There have been several situations where I read that a boat was sunk, marked it as destroyed, and subsequently found out that she was raised, repaired, and re-floated.  I suspect that is the case with GOB.

However, given the information presented here from the Boston Globe, I would posit that some of the early provenance of 828 in Upham is not entirely correct, and that GOB and BOBLINK are 2 different boats.  If GOB was sold in the fall of 1922 and was BOBLINK in the winter of 1922 - 1923, there would not have been enough time for her to be named RED SNAPPER as well.

I am going to modify the Registry accordingly and add a note indicating the early provenance is questionable.

Also, it looks like UNCAS changed hands (and names) twice in less than a year ???

Nice catch.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 01:23:34 PM by Steve »

Adam Langerman

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 03:11:02 PM »
GOB - summer of 2009.


Steve

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 03:34:17 PM »
Adam:  I'm shocked.  The owner, Gregg Germain, was very proud of her.  Did you take this shot?  Was the boat still in Marblehead?  Only a few months ago the owner confirmed to me that he still owned her.

Adam

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2010, 03:38:02 PM »
dosen't look like she's seen water af some time....sad.

Adam Langerman

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 03:49:36 PM »
I took the picture.  Next to the pond in Marblehead. 

Magic 56

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 02:25:38 AM »
I have to weigh in here.
Gob and Uncas are two different boats.
Nathaniel Ayer was the original owner of Gob. After he sold her in the fall of 1921 he left the S Class, but reappeared in 1925 sailing Uncas, then owned by Walworth W. Pierce, the food merchant.
Uncas does not show up in the original Herreshoff owners's list, and neither does Richard T. Crane, Jr., of the Crane plumbing family from Chicago, her original owner. The boat never left its mooring in 1921.
Its hull number is intermixed with the Shinnicock Colony fleet and is either 853, 855, 857, or 859, unless hull numbers were changed in the shop without it being recorded.
As the first ten boats were unique in having wedges between the ends of the frames and the garboard, and all the other boats seem accounted for, it makes it a virtual certainty that Aquila, your hull 9056 is Gob, hull # 828. It is the only S boat with a one piece keelson, and as George Zachorne notes, has lining off marks, which were probably used to make molds and patterns.

Steve

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 12:11:24 PM »
Magic .. Great discussion.  Since 859 is SWALLOW, UNCAS must be either 853, 855, or 857.

I didn't know about the wedges at the frame ends in the first 10 boats.  However, I am having trouble with your assertion that AQUILA is 828 (nee GOB).  We have ENTERPRISE, owned by Gregg Germain, as 828.  I beleive he has the hull plate.  833 and 836 from the first 10 are unaccounted for.  Could AQUILA be one of these?

-Steve

Magic 56

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 05:05:17 AM »
Swallow is hull # 845 originally owned by Louis K. Liggett (of the Phamacy) in the Marblehead fleet. It has a pretty clear provenance from 1920 to the present.

833 original name Cheerio, has a record going up to 1953, so that could not be Aquila, which has a record if you exclude Gob, back to 1924.

836 Daphnia has a record that goes to 1940, which again excludes it from being Aquila.

Nathaniel Ayer's daughter asserted that her father never owned an S boat, but always raced W.W. Pierce's boat, Boblink (Uncas-Boblink-Woodcock-Red Witch-Enterprise). This clearly is not true as he is listed as the buyer of 828 in the HMC Design Record. He did later sail Boblink occasionally, after he sold Gob.

In 1921 both Gob and Uncas were in the Marblehead fleet, Gob with race records and Uncas from the BG articles cited earlier, so they could not be the same boat.

Adam

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 03:29:48 PM »
Steve - are we sure Mr. Germain has the original hull plate?

Steve

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 03:44:37 PM »
This is a very interesting thread.  Of course you are correct about SWALLOW being #845, and  I have made the appropriate adjustments to the database. 

Based on the BG articles above, I think it is fair to deduce that GOB and BOBLINK are two different boats.  GOB was on Long Island Sound in 1923, while BOBLINK was in Marblehead, owned by Walworth Pierce.  From there, according to the 1994 Register, GOB goes on to become WOODCOCK, RED WITCH, and ENTERPRISE while BOBLINK goes out to Hawaii and returns to Cape Cod, where she is now RADIANT.  Do you agree?

It is a fair point you make about 833 and 836, so that leaves an open question about the origin of AQUILA. 

Steve

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 03:46:13 PM »
Adam:  I believe Mr. Germain has the hull plate, but I will reach out and attempt to verify.  Getting all of this sorted out will be a good exercise.

Magic 56

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2011, 02:42:22 AM »
I have to differ with your Boblink thread.
The Boston Evening Transcipt of March 21, 1926 shows Walworth Peirce selling Boblink to Charles W. Jaynes and the same reference of January 23, 1927 shows Boblink renamed Woodcock with the sail number 1.
This boat goes on to be owned by Marshall Field at Seawanhaka Corinthian YC in 1936 and then by the founder of the WLIS fleet, Dr. James Benfield eventually becoming Enterprise in 1988.
I believe that Gob goes on to become Sister in 1924, then Nepenthe, and ultimately Aquila.
Radiant has no record before being called "The Big Red One" and coming from somewhere on the Cape to Frank McCaffrey's shop in Newport in 1993.
Where did the Hawaii connection come from? I've never heard of any boat being shipped back from Hawaii, California yes, but not Hawaii.

Steve

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 12:28:17 PM »
Thanks for this information.  I was unaware of  Boston Evening Transcript articles.  I was also mis-reading the miscellaneous entries on page 106 of the 1994 Register, which is where Hawaii and some of the other spurious provenance elements show up.  I have some updates to make ... thanks for this.

I assume that you are connecting GOB to AQUILA by virtue of the frame-end trait you pointed out earlier.  This makes sense to me, but conflicts with the assertion by the owner of ENTERPRISE that his boat is #828.  I have reached out to him to see if he can explain the basis of his claim.  As I recall, he has the hull plate.  I'll certainly post his comments to this thread when (if) I hear from him.

Charles Barclay

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Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2011, 04:42:47 AM »
The Hawaii fleet had eight boats circa 1931-33.  A PHYC Score sheet of the era has eight slots and other written material provide support to this number.  S-Boats named were Yaca, Dutchess, Solitaire, and Panini.  The fleet had sail numbers 1-8.

Five were purchased and shipped for Allen W.T. Bottomley, in 1928-29. 

Two were built by the US Navy in 1930, commissioned in 1931--Mokiana and Mokulele.  Mokulele's registration from the State of Hawaii which I have in my hand says build date is 1931. 

Accounts exist of two being dismantled (Nalu and Mokiana) or destroyed (Panini ex Vanessa) on reefs.  Best we can tell at this point, one remains--Mokulele.  At best two are unaccounted for. 

That leaves one more boat, purchased by Mr. Bogardus from Isaac B. Merriman.  This was shipped to the east coast ca. 1934-35.  I believe it is Radiant per the names and hull number on the Registry.

If I can figure out how to post a picture I can submit documents in support of the above.

Charles