Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Charles Barclay

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]
Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: July 19, 2011, 04:43:13 AM »
Great post Ken, err Magic. 

Two items, one on keel placement (which I've wanted to post for a week or so), another on heel angle. 

I'm looking at the HMCo S-Boat build plans purchased last winter from Bristol Bronze. 

First, on a page labeled 828 CLASS OF KNOCKABOUTS Date Nov. 1919.
Weight of hull without spars, rigging, or equipment
  Open cockpit 5251#
  W.T.     "        5247#

"Job No. 830 Class date Sept. 22, 1920

Caps original.

The line drawing shows a distinctly different leading edge of the keel (approx 3").

This drawing also shows a sliding hatch for what appears the W.T. model.

Then there is a "GUNWHALE CONSTRUCTION 828 CLASS" drawing, initialed by N.G.H., approved by A.S.DeW. H. dated Nov. 29, 1919

This drawing shows two different shear strakes with the note:  "SHEAR STRAKE USED ON 830 CLASS--THE OTHER TYPE NOT USED."  These are distinctly different--model 828 is 2" x 3/4" White Oak, rectangular with a protrusion from the bottom, while 830 is 2 3/4" wide with a bulb at the top and 1 1/2" thick at its thickest.  It looks like the 830 was refined so as not to hook something from underneath.

I take all this to mean a few things:  by 2011 standards these were class boats, not one designs with some build variation--less on weight than a J24, but more on ballast placement (can you imagine moving a keel three inches in a one design class today?), secondly in addition to certain factory options like the W.T vs normal cockpit and teak vs mahagony trim, there was also a different Peconic Bay model (830) sold in Fall 1920 that came after the original (828) models of Fall 1919.   

Secondly, the angle of heel of that first S Boat has always intrigued me as some thing closer to 45 than 20 degrees.  I know photo angles can be deceptive, but the photo shows the boat is in control at a high angle of heel.  I just got done talking with the Pendragon VI team (3rd to finish in Transpac) and they designed the boat to go hard at 40 degrees of heel.  However that's with twin rudders.  This changes my view that a little heel is good, but more than enough (about 20 degrees) is slow. 


Thanks for all the good work you have done.

Charles Barclay

Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: July 02, 2011, 04:33:23 AM »
Panini, Ex Vanessa is built in 1926, shipped to Hawaii via Steamer in 1930, shows up in 1931.
Mokiana, the earlier of the two Navy boats is built in 1930, not necessarily launched at the same time as Mokulele in 1931.

I am guessing that Vanessa, soon to be Panini arrived in between the launchings of Mokiana and Mokulele, hence sail number 7. 

Fair deduction?



Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: July 02, 2011, 04:25:29 AM »

Dustin works in my office and put together the following list of who was who:

Hull 1077 A.W. T. Bottomley  8/4/1928 $4200  "Nalu"
purchased by R.G. Watt ca. 1934 (see why below), sold by Watt to L. Pauling 1954
dismantled 1990 parts used in rebuild of Mokulele

Hull 1076 A. Bottomley 8/4/1928  $4,100
Hull 1035 A. Bottomley 8/4/1928  $4,100
Hull 1036 A. Bottomley 8/4/1928  $4,100
Hull 1037 A. Bottomley 8/4/1928  $4,200

We believe the difference in price is teak trim.

Bottomley was a swell guy who contracted for the lot, brought them here, and distributed them among his Pearl Harbor Yacht Club friends like C.W. Dickey, Harold Dillingham, and Earl Thacker.  This was not uncommon.

Bottomley was reelected Commodore of PHYC in December 1932, then died in September 1933 when he slipped off his yacht and injured his head, when he was recovered he lost consciousness, dead upon arrival at the docks.  Nalu was listed in his assets along with a larger yacht "Dolfin" and was presumed sold to Mr. Watt shortly thereafter. 

Hull 1020 Issac Merriman's boat 9/30/1926, $4,200 ex-Vanessa, became Panini upon arrival in Hawaii via steamer in 1930 owned successively by:
Everadus Bogardus 1931 to 1933
Gordon Mendelsohn 1933-1934
Earl Thacker 1935-1962

Mendelsohn appears to have been a frequent visitor but not a resident staying at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel during his month long visits. 

Dustin also had a note of a Robert Atkinson 1933-34 #9067  then the names "Maile", "Huppala", and "Kamaolipua" which I think became Frank Rothwell's boat S 5, Frank owned the boat at least through 1955, sold it, and started sailing Stars out of WYC. 

Per an Oct. 27, 1956 Honolulu Advertiser article one S Boat wrecked on a reef at 0630 same day.  Owned by Frederic C. Humphrey.  Vessel had been stolen the previous night after having underwent an extensive refit and new mast. 

Per a photo in the Advertiser from the November 2, 1958 article Henley Dillingham owned sail #6, Bill King, Len Leary, Harold Dillingham (elder), photo shows sail #6, #8.   

The extent of the Whiting to Shepard Williams letter June 1, 1994 consists of Ms. Whiting's remembering access to Ala Wai Yacht Harbor through the Kewalo Basin Channel.

I am also sending an article from deceased columnist Bob Krauss about Shepard Williams and the Mokulele.  As well as some of Shepard's photographs of his restoration of the Mokulele.  The article clearly has some inaccuracies, but is a puff piece and enjoyable nonetheless. 

I do not see where on Mokulele the boomkin may have been but will look this afternoon for evidence such as a cut or patch in the stern.

Happy Fourth!


Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: June 30, 2011, 07:01:34 PM »
Aloha Steve and Magic,

Mokulele was #8, its on her current sails and concurs with other newspaper articles--she was also the second of the two Navy boats built.  She does have some #5's sails which were Kamaolipua's (Frank Rothwell, son Mike Rothwell).  No boomkin from what I can see but a shortened boom and permanent backstay.  Although there is a raised cabin top along with the wt cockpit and hull in FRG, there had been an inboard engine install, the shaft remains.  Picture of Mokulele and Mokiana racing at PHYC on the soon to be published HYC July Bulletin.

Mokiana was #7.  Some of her parts remain and are scattered with Mokulele's spares.

As the last two boats in the fleet this makes sense.  Still leaves us with who was #6? 

There are also newspaper articles as well with pictures including sail numbers.  It'll take time to scan, they came from UH's Hamilton Library from microfiche some are difficult to read.

Most require gleaning information from rather than directed at S Boats. 


Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: June 29, 2011, 07:28:29 PM »
PHYC is Pearl Harbor Yacht Club

HYC is Hawaii Yacht Club, although it has had at least two name changes (Honolulu Yacht Club to Hawaii Yacht Club ca 1950).  The first name change was when the club merged with several others in the 20's. 

Steve, I sent images of a score sheet and pictures to info@ last night.  Hopefully they have arrived.  I have a fantastic 3 page letter written by one of the participants in the 30's and 40's in the S Boat fleet--a lively young women named Edna Whiting who wrote to Shepard Williams in 1994 about the history, as she remembers of the S Boat fleet in Hawaii.  I'll send that along too.  You might just fall in love with her. 

PM if they files did not arrive. 

Again, Mahalo (thank you) for all the work.  Very interesting that what we know may not be so.


Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: S-Class Gob and Uncas
« on: June 29, 2011, 04:42:47 AM »
The Hawaii fleet had eight boats circa 1931-33.  A PHYC Score sheet of the era has eight slots and other written material provide support to this number.  S-Boats named were Yaca, Dutchess, Solitaire, and Panini.  The fleet had sail numbers 1-8.

Five were purchased and shipped for Allen W.T. Bottomley, in 1928-29. 

Two were built by the US Navy in 1930, commissioned in 1931--Mokiana and Mokulele.  Mokulele's registration from the State of Hawaii which I have in my hand says build date is 1931. 

Accounts exist of two being dismantled (Nalu and Mokiana) or destroyed (Panini ex Vanessa) on reefs.  Best we can tell at this point, one remains--Mokulele.  At best two are unaccounted for. 

That leaves one more boat, purchased by Mr. Bogardus from Isaac B. Merriman.  This was shipped to the east coast ca. 1934-35.  I believe it is Radiant per the names and hull number on the Registry.

If I can figure out how to post a picture I can submit documents in support of the above.


Specific Herreshoff Vessels / Re: New York 40s
« on: June 18, 2011, 06:45:03 PM »
Actually, Wizard of Bristol is in restoration in Kapolei (Formerly known as Barber's Point).  Large stack of lumber next to her.  Project has been ongoing since about 2004.  I last saw the vessel in April 2011. 

Hull work is well progressed, master craftsman is at work on her although he spends time with family back in Port Townsend, WA.  I've seen his restoration work previously and it is top quality.  Next time I'm out that way, I'll take pictures and talk with the project manager.

Charles Barclay

Miscellaneous Herreshoff Topics / Re: Herreshoff Drawings
« on: March 23, 2011, 04:09:08 PM »
April 2011 Edition of WoodenBoat magazine has article by Maynard Bray featuring the restoration of NY 50 Spartan.  pp58-67.  Including a description of what happens when modern foils and marconi rig meets up with the Herreshoff model and Gaff rig.


Whatever / Re: Anyone know what boats these are?
« on: February 24, 2011, 10:11:46 PM »
Vertical Cut sails on two, likely makes them pre-1895?  Or they are using the old rags.

Herreshoff Sailing Vessel Classes / Re: 57 Foot Class?
« on: December 14, 2010, 05:07:22 PM »
Aloha Gents, and thank you Mr. Nagy for the welcome!

From the Google search "Avenger herreshoff yacht Watson" comes the fourth item quoted in part below:



Club History

by: Marston W. Keeler, 1970

These pages are dedicated to the memory of our members who have set sail on their last voyage. Without their foresight and initiative our Yacht Club would not have been. May they forever have fair winds and a quiet anchorage.

Memoirs of a Yacht Club

Our more mature members will recall the numerous fine yachts (and some not so fine) flying the Burgee of the Conanicut Yacht Club during the twenties and thirties. Among these, with their owners, can be mentioned

DOG STAR III, Commodore F. O. Allen ---THE ANNAS, Mrs. Harrison S. Morris---12-Meter Sloop ANAWA, Commodore Horace F. Smith, Jr.---VEGA, J. S. L. Wharton---PENGUIN, L. M. Keeler---10-Meter Sloop REVENGE, T. Albert Potter---Catboat ARUSA, W. Wetherill---Schooner GERTRUDE, B. Block---FISHER MAID & FIREFLY, Mrs. J. Bertram Lippincott----74 foot Sloop AVENGER, W. W. Watson, Jr.—FAYELLE, Mrs. James M. Dodge---Sloop THELEMA, Commodore Charles W. Wharton---Crosby Yawl CHERIE, W.M.C. Kimber---TODDYWAX, Herreshoff-built in 1906 for William P. Henszey--- TODDYWAX II & III, built for Dr. and Mrs. Thomas G. Ashton in the early 30’s---THANIA, ex-TODDYWAX I, now Daniel A. Newhall’s and still going strong---Friendship Sloop ESTELLA A, owned by Duncan Selfridge and presently at Mystic Seaport—And one can not forget the palatial 100 foot Yacht WILD DUCK, belonging to Miss Margaret B. Levey and Commodore Charles B. Levey, with its crew of nine, plus a watchman to patrol the decks at night.

It should be noted in this era yachting was a Gentlemans sport, and in our fleet there were few boats if any size, either sail or power, which were not run and maintained by uniformed paid hands. Fortunately the game has changed with the times, boats have shrunk in length and professional help is no longer a required standard for yachting.

Hurricanes have played a part in the destiny of our Yacht Club. The first of the century, coming ashore Long Island, hit the Northeast coast with tremendous fury and without warning on the afternoon of September 21st, 1938. Little Rhode Island stood directly in the path of this killer storm, and before nightfall over 300 lives had been lost and $100,000,000 worth of damage had been wrought in the State. In Jamestown 7 school children died when their school bus bogged down at Mackerel Cove, and the ferry “Governor Carr “found a new berth for itself on the Wetherill’s front yard. By five o’clock the wind was recorded at a velocity of 121 miles-per-hour and every boat anchored off the Yacht Club had either sunk or been washed ashore and wrecked. The pier was soon demolished, and tidal waters rose beyond the first floor level. At this point, the ranking member present removed the list of Officers and Trustees from the wall, and declared the Club “out of commission.”


So Steve, I don't think the provenace should change, just an indication of where we might find more data.  I believe the "Vega" mentioned in the same paragreaph is a Herreshoff steam vessel converted to gas.  Anyway, it is unlikely Mr. Keeler is still alive to ask further questions.

Similarly, I am tracking down a 95 year old sailor in Hawaii for my S Boat project.     

Herreshoff Sailing Vessel Classes / Re: 57 Foot Class?
« on: December 13, 2010, 05:54:28 PM »
A Google search of Avenger and Herreshoff yachts done earlier this year produced an interesting tidbit (at least to me) from a History of the Conanicut Yacht Club in Jamestown R.I.  The article listed a Mr. Watson who owned the vessel during the 30's, was a member of CYC, and it was considered the Flagship of the yacht club at the time. 

40 or so years later, circa 1970, Mr. George Watson gave me a wood model of "Avenger" at 1/2" to 1' scale.  His family had had the model for some time.  He said his family had owned the vessel, and it was destroyed or damaged in the City Island Fire around 1913. 

There are enough articles about the vessel post 1915 winning races and transferred to an owner in Boston to indicate the vessel clearly was not destroyed.  As an eight year old, my memory of what adults said can't today be trusted; however, there would be clues to the destiny of vessels destroyed if insurance documents are available.

The Watson's were friends of my grandparents, they were into their late 60's at that time and retired from sailing in a year or two, selling their yacht. 

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]