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Herreshoff Forum => Restoration => Topic started by: Nick on December 16, 2013, 04:11:21 AM

Title: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 16, 2013, 04:11:21 AM
I recently became the owner of a Herreshoff S Boat, although, owner is probably not the best description of a classic wooden boat owner. Probably steward or caretaker best describes the short time I will have with her. You see, Lady Luck has had no fewer than 11 owners prior to beginning my tenure. This vessel is the 1034th built by The Herreshoff Manufacturing Co. She was originally launched in as 'Barracuda' in 1928 and has been known as Lady Luck since the early 50's. She will remain Lady Luck with my wife's fond approval. Lady luck is not the prettiest belle at the ball as she needs a fair amount of work to bring her back to a former glory but I am told by many that she is a fast boat and a worthy project.
Lady Luck will be my first foray into restoring a wood plank on frame boat. I have much to learn but I am fortunate to have many resources available to guide me through the restoration. She is now at her new home in Swansea, MA and is in the very early stages of evaluation and planning for the restoration. I will from time to time post progress pictures and welcome comments from the community.
Nick Sollecito

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/LadyLuck6.jpg)
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Steve on December 16, 2013, 02:25:30 PM
Welcome to the Forum and good luck with your restoration.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 17, 2013, 03:16:41 AM
I am beginning to formulate a plan of what I would like to tackle over the winter. Below are some photos of what I have found over the last two weeks of work.

Lady Luck has been out of the water for over two years so there is a lot of of shrinkage in the keelson and deadwood as you can see in the following series of photos. I have scraped and removed some of the caulking and filler to check for rot. So far no rot!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/Day1f.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/Day1e.jpg)

The forward seven frames are rotted where the original iron bolts are attached to the floor timbers. I am planning a temporary fix to these frames by scarfing partial new white oak frames in place of the lower half of these frames. Three of the floor timbers also need to be replaced. Below you can see the third timber removed which I will use as a template to make its replacement. You can also see the rot in the lower half of the frames along with all the rusted out iron bolts. Once this is done I will replace the iron floor bolts with silicon bronze fasteners and bolt though the scarfed joints and planks. This repair should last at least 5 or 6 years until a more permanent restoration is undertaken.

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/294329cf-bc0e-4721-9fa7-5ae450b927f9.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/16f1e56f-8d2b-4edd-a369-3b6de8a1ac93.jpg)


Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Adam on December 17, 2013, 05:00:52 AM
Love to see another S being restored - good for you. Seems they have a very strong following - second to the 12 maybe nowadays...Welcome to the forum - and keep the pics rolling....!
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 19, 2013, 02:36:43 AM
The stripping of the hull has commenced. It is coming of quite nicely with a heat gun a scraper. A surprise find; a filled in cove stripe and arrow head. I will definitely bring this back!

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/e050c54e-52b0-435d-9ded-2a61e362cdd9.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/cde7f51a-6472-4bff-890b-27d56e0d9ad0.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/Day1a.jpg)

The White Oak shear strake was painted. What I have uncovered so far looks OK. I am hoping to clean it up so I can varnish it.

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/IMG_1434.jpg)

Close up of the Arrow Head. Maybe there is another term for it?

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/IMG_1436.jpg)
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: DaveHub on December 20, 2013, 02:15:23 PM
Hi Nick!

I am sponsoring the restoration of "Misty" (See the blog on her, hull #1385)  (will be launched as 'Clara J') at the International Yacht Restoration School (IYRS).  Check the student blog by Hans Scholl, bottom left of the IYRS.edu (http://IYRS.edu) home page.  Although mine needed a total rebuild.  Lot's of good shots there.

I have seen Lady Luck when I was casting about for a bout this past summer.  She is in better shape than mine was.

It's great to hear she has found a steward (yes I totally agree with you there!).

Keep us posted!
Dave
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 20, 2013, 08:42:00 PM
Hi Dave,
I actually have been following the IYRS blog on Clara J. It is amazing to me how much knowledge there still is out there to restore these wonderful boat. Can't wait to see her out there sailing. I will be following the progress.
Best of luck!
Nick
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 22, 2013, 01:54:00 AM
I added a poll to the top of this thread. I could use some help with the color choice for Lady Luck. I am stripping her bare and have the opportunity to change the color. The current color is red. Not my favorite color but there is an interesting story behind the color. In 1937 John Dorrance bought her. He was the CEO of the Campbell Soup Company and had the color matched to that of the red Tomato Soup can. According to this registry he only owned her for 1 year but the color remained all these years. Since I am a sap for a good story I am inclined to keep the color but there are some good reasons to change the color to white. The best one was just given to me by someone I know. He suggested that I change to white since most of the S class boats are white and red will stick out if I am over the line early. This is a very good point since I am over early quite often. Then there is Captain Nat's statement about the color of boats: “There are only two colors to paint a boat - black or white. And only a fool would paint a boat black.”
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 22, 2013, 02:03:37 AM
I took of the ID plate today and cleaned it up with brass polish. Looks Sweet! I do not think I will be putting it back on though. I have heard that the plates sometimes get stolen. Kind of sad.

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/fd46e7cd-eb63-416b-8ee1-dd0296ebbe37.jpg)
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: DaveHub on December 22, 2013, 02:53:53 AM
I'm fairly new to this, but some wisdom others have given me on paint: black and dark colors are higher maintenance, because they heat in the sun and the water vapor raised behind then will blister.  I have also been advised against a boot stripe, as it can look droopy at the bow given the hollow bows of the S.  Red is kind of in the middle. And does stand out. I would probably lean toward the original color. IMHO red with a dark underside would be striking.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Keith422 on December 22, 2013, 08:22:39 PM
Hello Nick, I worked on Lady Luck a number of years ago, just prior to her being donated to the Herreshoff Museum. I also now work at the museum as a shipwright, along with my real job as a shipwright at a Bristol-area boatyard. I'd be happy to offer any advice or guidance if you need.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 22, 2013, 10:11:03 PM
Dave, you are right about the darker colors. The red topside has numerous areas that were blistered. I wasn't sure why but that makes perfect sense. Thanks for weighing in.
Keith, Thank you for you offer! What Kind of work did you do on Lady Luck?
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Charles Barclay on December 23, 2013, 01:31:59 AM
Nice Thread Nick!  And nice avatar, never saw that one before-great photo.

Each of these boats has an interesting story, and as the next caretaker you'll add your own.

I would urge you to replace the plate upon finishing the vessel just as I would urge you to eventually replace an aluminum mast with a wood one if your boat had one. 

Yes, you are probably right about the occasional plate being stolen, more frequent and problematic for provenance over the years have been owners that kept the plate as a keepsake instead of letting it go with the boat. 

Thieves have stolen entire boats, and wrecked them in the S-Class.  We've had a devil of a time reconciling which boat was which and what it's final destination because in part owners took the plates off some of boats, name changes, borrowed sails, etc.  which one was wrecked, which one was demolished/parted out.  I think you get the idea.

The value of boats without their plates especially in the one-designs is somewhat less as well.   

You want to be a good steward.   I would urge you to replace the plate and polish from time to time.  You've made a great start, and I think most everyone that follows the registry is quite happy you've rolled the dice with Lady Luck. 
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 23, 2013, 03:10:03 AM
Hi Charles,

Thanks for the kind words!

You make some very valid arguments on keeping the plate affixed to the boat which would be my preference. Maybe I am bring a bit paranoid but I would sure hate to loose it. There are screws that will only thread in and cannot be removed. Maybe I can try that.

"Roll the dice" I like it!

Thanks!
Nick
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: DaveHub on December 23, 2013, 03:38:20 AM
I didn't realize she had an aluminum mast. Of course the S normally has a curved hollow wood mast.  I can recommend Jim Titus of Mt.  Hope boat in Newport for masts. He is doing the blank for Clara J, and the class will finish it.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 23, 2013, 03:44:12 AM
This is getting real, fast!

I got into the port side sheer strake today and it is in worse condition than I expected. I removed the toe rail and uncovered plenty of rot. The worst of it is in the rear quarter as you can see in the following photos. I cut out the rotted end to the closest frame and exposed the internal structural components. Fortunately the clamp and frame are not rotted. You can see the remains of the iron bolt I removed sitting on the deck the large hole to the left is a good example of the result of iron sickness.  :o

 My idea is to sister a cleat onto the frame to serve as one of the attachment points for the replacement piece. I will then dovetail the existing end of the sheer strake and fashion a new piece to fit. 

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/IMG_1484.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/9b16c567-bd14-4a9b-90e8-c64c7a095eb3.jpg)

The following pictures show the rot that was under the toe rail. My plan is to rout down about 5/8" along the entire top of the sheer strake and glue and screw in a new piece of white oak and reshape it. I expect that the starboard side will need similar treatment. 

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/b440a60f-72bc-480d-9b63-53e0f98827e2.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/IMG_1480.jpg)


Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 23, 2013, 03:47:28 AM
Hi Dave,
Actually it does have a hollow wood mast and solid boom. It is not the original mast it has been replaced new. I do have an aluminum spin pole though. Maybe someday I will make a new pole.
Nick
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Adam on December 23, 2013, 08:37:28 PM
I cannot underscore enough what Charles stated about removing the plate. This causes more confusion then you can imagine - the registry has all kinds of boats that we can never be 100% sure what their hull number is due to missing plates.

However, I can fully appreciate owners (stewards et al) being cautious with these original plates because of thefts and how valuable these plates have become. Lucky for those undertaking restorations, there are a number of suppliers that make reproductions – Bristol Bronze, and Cape Cod Shipbuilding come to mind. So if protecting the original is a concern replacing them with a reproduction is an easy and cheap.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 23, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
Adam, that's good to know that they can be reproduced. That is what I will do.
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Keith422 on December 23, 2013, 10:58:22 PM
Hello Nick,

I did some work on Lady Luck a number of years ago when he was under the care if Concordia Boats. I am now working as a shipwright at the Herreshoff Museum, along with my full-time job as a shipwright at a Bristol-area boatshop. I'd be happy to offer any advice or answer any questions you may have regarding your restoration.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 24, 2013, 07:24:02 PM
Hi Keith,
Thank you for your offer! What kind of work did you do on Lady Luck?
Nick
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Charles Barclay on December 27, 2013, 01:59:58 AM
Aloha All,

Did not mean to imply Lady Luck had an aluminum mast, rather trying to make a point about originality and class uniformity.  Nick managed to dispell that rumour of the metal mast quite nicely.  I could've written carbon just as easily.  Carbon and metal masts take quite a penalty in the european circuit. 

Speaking of metal masts, while rereading LFH's The Complete Cruiser, I see that Weldon seems to think wood masts are not a problem in thunderstorms--wonder what the insurance claims folks have to say about that. 

Ran across an old letter from a former S-Class sailor who said that HMCo carried a number of spares and the Hawaii fleet bought a bunch of them after the '38 Hurricane.  Which led me to wonder does anyone know of a stash of masts anywhere?  Fred called me a while back letting me know that BBY had an old Pelican mast.  Which would make a nice back up. 

Nick, as for colors, I would not get too racked over the color choice, Capt Nat's Alerion was a now famous green.  I think his quote about black and white was about Cup boats.  Moreover, if you take Maynard Bray's advice you'll use a new topcoat or two every year rather than the abuse we favor our glass boats with. 

BTW, if you have not seen it, Maynard did a nice blog on a good, reasonable paint (Marshall's Cove) out of Seattle about 18 months ago over at Off-Center Harbor.com.  http://www.offcenterharbor.com/2012/05/03/new-paint-you-should-know-about/. 

Also, think your solution to have a reproduction of the plate made is a grand idea. 

Keep sending the photos and writing about your adventure, it's great to see your progress.

Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 29, 2013, 01:41:51 AM
I am in the process of removing as much of the iron fasteners as possible. Today I removed the iron bolts from 4 of the floor timbers around the mast step. At some point in the past new bronze bolts were fastened through some of the floor timbers into the frames. Unfortunately, the iron bolts were not removed at that time. You can see the iron sickness that occurred. The holes are now quite a bit larger than the original holes. I am not sure what the best course of action should be here. I am thinking I need to fill the old holes with an epoxy filler like West System and drill new holes then install new fasteners? I fear that using the old holes would allow the timbers and frames to work free.

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/58DC6C56-D60F-4BF5-AB76-73A5AB242AEA.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/5FD2464A-65DB-40BB-8415-B567FDFAE3E5.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/DB31E64E-FA3D-4972-B7C4-ABC983247257.jpg)

I decided to remove a plank on either side to better access the frames and timbers that I need to work on:

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/A7EF4EC2-589E-48C1-B271-45AE772A65F9.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/2CB686D6-7756-4B72-A804-386E1C09726F.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/496C480E-CFCE-4C09-AF6A-6E625DFBA50A.jpg)
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on December 29, 2013, 01:52:23 AM
Hi Charles,
Thanks for you last post. I checked the video on the Marshall's Cove paint. Looks like a nice product. I also watched the video on Captain Nat's Alerion. What a great color green. I am not a big fan of green but that is a beautiful color.

I haven't heard of any spare masts around but maybe Adam L. know of some.

Check my last post. I am finding more substantial issues as I get further into the deconstruction of Lady Luck. I am really good at tearing things apart. We will soon see how good I am at putting it all back together. 

Nick
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Charles Barclay on December 29, 2013, 06:08:39 PM
Aloha Nick,

Thanks for the post and the pictures, great stuff!

Right move to remove the planks for access.  You've touched on something that the group might have interesting comments on:  when do you replace a structural member and when do you use thickened epoxy to stabilize the area?

Artisan Boatwork's Aec Brainerd had a nice article on the use of epoxy on their new BB18's in the April Woodenboat.  Might be a nice starting point.  So too, Gougeon Brother's book on boat repair if you've got the time.

Frames,
Knees,
Timbers,
Floors,
Keels.

At what threshold do you replace each?  You could add planks as well. 

From a project standpoint, I'm curious why you stopped stripping paint to look at structural issues?

Again, glad you are doing what you are doing, she deserves the care she was unable to receive the last few years.    Understand she raced as recently as the 2012 season. 
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Nick on January 02, 2014, 04:41:13 AM
With the goal in mind of getting Lady Luck in the water sometime this season, hopefully sooner than later, I will be doing a combination of repairs with wood and epoxy with micro balloons. The forward  seven frames and floor timbers are now free of iron fasteners, the rotted areas removed and ready for repair or replacement. I have acquired the white oak for replacing the floor timbers and frame sections and I am waiting for my order of silicon bronze fasteners to arrive. I should be starting the rebuilding process in the next week or so.

Charles, I stopped the stripping so I could get into the deconstruction more and see what I have ahead of me for work and materials needed. Also boredom was setting in heating and scraping. I can only take that part of the job in small doses.


You can find anything on eBay. Here are my new/old boat wright tools. Pretty sweet!


(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m250/hpattern/Lady%20Luck/B6318680-12A7-4AFC-9CAE-D636D73D90D3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: b.beardsley on January 26, 2014, 07:23:04 PM
On the subject of hull plates, I have the original from my 15, Snipe, but I have a reproduction on the boat itself. Might be worth doing. Mine is the early plate which is much easier to reproduce than yours and came from Jim Reineck. I don't know if he does the later ones.
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: Adam on January 27, 2014, 05:03:59 PM
No doubt Reineck's plates would be near perfect copies (his stuff is absolutely beautiful).

Bristol Bronze carries three Herreshoff plates:
Early - HMOO62 - Before 1925
Middle - HMOO60 - 1925-1932
and Late - HMOO66 - 1932 - 1939 

http://bristolbronze.com/Catalog/pg026.pdf
Title: Re: The Restoration of Lady Luck HMCo. 1034 S Class
Post by: DaveHub on November 15, 2014, 04:53:46 PM
Hi Nick,

I was wondering how things were going with Lady Luck?  As I may have posted, she was one of the "S" boats I looked at while searching around, before I went with Misty, now my "Clara J" over at IYRS.  I have been aboard her while she was on the hard next to the museum.

Dave