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Herreshoff Forum => Restoration => Topic started by: Erick Singleman on April 13, 2010, 04:28:09 PM

Title: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 13, 2010, 04:28:09 PM

After looking at some of the details from 1938 hardware I came home a discovered that my boom hanger is not the type that is permanently fixed to the mast but rather a sliding version that attaches to the sail track.  This must be yet another refinement between 1938 and 1941, as this bronze part is dimensioned similarly to the Herreshoff 1938 boom hanger with identical length etc.

Anyone know of other boats with this sliding boom hanger, or how they were used.  I should attach a photo, as it has a screw knob on it, but I imagine there was a lead attached also that was cleated further down the mast.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Steve on April 13, 2010, 06:23:14 PM
I haven't seen a set-up like you describe.  A picture would be helpful.  You believe it is original?  Perhaps a little close examination would yield a casting pattern number ?
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Adam on April 13, 2010, 07:04:40 PM
I'm trying to picture what you are describing - a Downhaul?
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 13, 2010, 07:18:41 PM
I will take a picture of the boom hanger (Herreshoff term), the modern term is gooseneck, and upload it.  It has a knurlled knob that screws in to put pressure on the sail track to hold it in place, however, if you wanted to adjust the tension on the luff of the sail an keep it, I don't think the knob would be enough to hold it, so I think you would attach some type of vang or something to cleat if off further down the mast.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Steve on April 13, 2010, 10:02:02 PM
Does this help?

(http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/images/Gooseneck.jpg)
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 13, 2010, 10:13:35 PM
The oness in the middle of the page are sort of like it, you'll see tomorrow when I post a photo.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 14, 2010, 04:45:31 PM
I'll try to post the pictures, here goes....

First picture, gooseneck.  I think it looks like an original Herreshoff based on the drawing I saw for the fixed gooseneck.  The knurled knob is spring loaded and is designed to be captured by holes drilled in the sail track.  My mast track has four holes to choose from.

Second and third pictures are of the hardware to attach the clew of the sail.  there are a pair of pulleys (one on each side) one looks original bronze, and the other looks like an add on, and in my opinion seems unnecessary, but i am not sure how this if original was intended to be configured.  On the '38 plans a rope eye goes through the clew grommet in the sail and the end of the boom has a vertical slot carved to guide the line down and around to tie off on a jam cleat positioned on the port side of the boom.  This piece of hardware is neat, as it is hinged and has a spring loaded pin to easily insert the clew grommet in and out, and it locks in place very securely.

(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0da35b3127ccef9896da5e55100000030O00AaMm7Jm0ct2QPbz4E/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)

(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0da35b3127ccef988e745448800000040O00AaMm7Jm0ct2QPbz4E/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)

(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0da35b3127ccef9889320c5e700000030O00AaMm7Jm0ct2QPbz4E/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Steve on April 14, 2010, 06:00:14 PM
Interesting ... this is the first I have seen this arrangement.  My own boat had mast hoops ... no sailtrack on the mast.  So the mast fitting connects via the sailtrack and is not permanently affixed to the spar?  That seems to be a rather weak connection.  Does anyone else have experience with such an arrangement?
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Adam on April 14, 2010, 07:00:00 PM
Not sure whats so special about this arangement? Looks like every other small boat I've owned (well most anyway) Sliding goosneck with pin lock for the tack and sliding outhaul for the tack....I'd bet add on block was for a lazyjack system maybe?...On any boat I've have the end of the clew was not tied off on the pully but rather the round eye just in front. I have a sinmilar arrangement on my boat now...Are there cleats on either side of the boom forward?
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 14, 2010, 07:22:31 PM
Not sure this is special, just not documented in Herreshoff plans up to 1938, so I am not 100% sure of the true configuration.  I suspect the eye shown was another add on.  My though is the end of the clew outhaul should be tied to the front of the sliding part, pass around the one pulley and forward to the jam cleat on the side of the boom a few feet forward. However this would put a bit of a transverse force on the slider, having an eye on the other side of the boom from the pulley and tying the end to it and running it around the front of the slide would create a aftward force on the slide, maybe that is what it really should be?
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Adam on April 15, 2010, 03:42:10 PM
My thought is the add on block has nothing to do with the outhaul but one of three things - Part of a lazy jack, reefing, or adjustable topping lift... I don't know if any of the three would be OME on a 12, you two would know better then I....

Here is a drawing of a typical gaff setup showing all three - from Marshall but I assume it fits what we are talking about (?)....

(http://www.marshallcat.com/images/rigging.jpg)
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 15, 2010, 05:17:36 PM
Could be Adam.  Don't know why you'd have lazy jacks on a 12 though, unless you are really lazy :) especially on a Marconi rigged 12.  But the last guy who had this boat in the water must have been, as the boom is split in half right down the middel form glue failure.  If he had kept up on the finish that wouldn't have happened.  Aslo, to fix the problem he cut out 4" x 4" pieces of plastic sheet about 1/8"thick and tacked these across the split in the boom in about six places.  With the sliding gooseneck and the spring loaded clew fitting it would have been very easy to take the darn boom off and do a propper repair.  Now I am stuck with cleaning up all of the holes and deterioration where he nailed in all of these tacks (about 16 for each 4 x 4 strap he put on >:(.  However it does look like I will be able to salvage the boom and make it look pretty good.  The mast, i don't know yet, it will at least need a scarfed in piece at the top.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Adam on April 15, 2010, 10:01:23 PM
Doh!
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 20, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
Ah, a bit of evidence from last year's Herreshoff regatta.  The photo below shows the boom on the museum's Fish class.  It has the exact arrangement that my boom has on the end.  This makes me feel like I have the correct hardware.  Notice it has pulleys on each side of the boom at the back to redirect the clew tightening lines forward.  On the 1938 12 1/2 plans, although it did not show this later vintage hardware with two side pulleys, it did show the clew line going through a vertical slot notched out of the end of the boom to redirect the single line back to a wooden jam cleat 2' 5" forward on the port side of the boom.

Seems like with this cleat roughly 2.5 feet forward it seems possible that the clew could be adjusted by the skipper with one hand on the tiller.

Configuring two lines going forward to jam cleats on both sides of the boom would presumably make it easier to adjust the clew from either tack.

Also this boom appears to be made of Douglas Fir (Oregon pine) as is mine.  However my mast seems to be made of Sitka Spruce.  Does anyone know if it was common practice to mix the species on the spars? HMC called out either wood on the 1938 plans.

(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0da01b3127ccef9bcdfeebfe700000030O00AaMm7Jm0ct2QPbz4E/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2010, 08:00:13 PM
Here is an image of the gooseneck assembly that Steve Ballentine sells for the 12:

(http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/images/0478.jpg)

This pdf is from Jim Reineck's catalog and shows his interpretation of the gooseneck on page 3.

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/images/2002pro.pdf (http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/images/2002pro.pdf)
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 20, 2010, 08:10:17 PM
Yes, that is the one that is detailed in the 1938 plans.  However, I think the one that I have is a 1938-41 modification, that allows the gooseneck to slide on the sailtrack.  This seems  a convenient adaptaion allowing adjustment of the luff of the sail not to mention handy if you can slide it up when making a boom tent.  Headroom for us tall guys!!!
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Alan on April 23, 2010, 01:23:19 AM
For what it's worth, the S boat has similar bronze clew adjusting cars on the main and jib boom tracks. On the main boom the outhaul is attached to a fixed eye on the boom, then forward through the groove on the forward end of the bronze car, then back to a fixed block on the opposite side of the boom, then forward along the side of the boom to a cleat. The outhaul is not tied to the outhaul car as you have shown in your picture. The little strap vertical across the round groove is there to capture the outhaul line and thus prevent the whole bronze car from sliding off the end of the boom and into the drink when the sail is not attached. The outhaul on the jib boom has a similar but slightly different path, using a horizontal groove in the end of the boom.
The second fixed block on the other side of the boom is for an adjustable topping lift, which may not have been original plan, but sure comes in handy.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Steve on April 23, 2010, 01:37:22 AM
Welcome to the Forum, Alan
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 23, 2010, 02:46:01 PM
Thanks Alan, The configuratin you describe makes perfect sense.  I thought only one of those side blocks was necessary for the the outhaul.  I am not familiar with the term adjustable topping lift.  Does this pertain to the lifting of the boom end with the main halyard in some fashion that is adjustable?  Together with the sliding gooseneck I can see where this would allow you to have an adjustable roof boom tent.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Alan on April 23, 2010, 10:20:27 PM
Hi Erick. By adjustable topping lift, I am referring to a line that is fixed at the top of the mast, which runs down to the outboard end of the boom, through a fixed block and then forward to a cleat. It is not the main halyard. Basically it holds the outboard end of the boom up when the sail is dropped.
When we bought our S boat, Firefly, it did not have a boom topping lift. Whenever we dropped the sail we had to have the boom crutch in position and try to drop the boom into the small target of the crutch. Otherwise we had a heavy boom crashing on the cabin top or into the water, or worse on someone's head (which fortunately never happened). Yes, it would adjust the height of the boom for a boom tent.
The only disadvantage of having a boom topping lift is when you are sailing you need to keep in mind there is a line running from the mast head to the end of the boom that could catch on something like a piling or a buoy or another boat if you sail too close. In a decent breeze such an event could be bad news. I always have a knife on hand to quickly cut the topping lift if that ever happened, but I am very careful to avoid close encounters--especially with an 84 year old boat!
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on April 23, 2010, 10:35:17 PM
Well, I learned something today. And I love to learn new things about sailboats.

My only real sailing experience is in my little Pooduck Skiff, which is a simple standing lug rig.  The 12 1/2 will be my "big boat".  Interesting though how there are all these little details of different rigging configurations, and how they are different between eras and the people that use them or don't use them, or come up with their own convenient ways of doing things.
Title: Re: Boom hanger
Post by: Erick Singleman on July 24, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
I thought I'd post the answer to my sliding gooseneck mystery.  While refurbishing my mast, I decided to scarf in a new bottom section because a previous owner had so many screw holes in it that water had found ways into and began to rot.  Well several of these extra holes where from moving the gooseneck around since apparently he didn't like where HMC put it in the first place.  The standard fixed gooseneck has a four hole pattern, and this four hole pattern is seen about four times in the general area of where the gooseneck is supposed to be.  One of the patterns is exactly where the plans call for it to be, so my conclusion is that the boat originally had the standard fixed gooseneck, which was moved several times until it was finally replaced by a sliding gooseneck. 

I am going to go back to the original style.