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Herreshoff Forum => Herreshoff Sailing Vessel Classes => Topic started by: Adam on April 02, 2010, 05:50:46 PM

Title: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on April 02, 2010, 05:50:46 PM
OK - Question - I note everything I've read states there were 4 HMCo. Marlin built. The registry shows the following:

1. #1420 Found
2. #1507 Found
3. #1422 Unknown

There is also a "Marlin" owned by the HMM but has an Unknown hull #.

So am I to infer that "Marlin" is the fourth - and if so her building was never registered in the record - thus not having a hull number, or is it that she is Unknown and could be #1422 or ???? (What would be the fourth #?).

Am I saying this in English?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2010, 07:11:25 PM
There were 4 Marlins built:

1420 - FOUND, currently MATSYA
1421 - Unaccounted For
1422 - Unaccounted For
1507 - FOUND, currently YARE

Additionally, HMM owns a Marlin called MARLIN.  The hull number is unknown.  However, we know it must be either 1421 or 1422.

-Steve
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on April 02, 2010, 11:07:09 PM
ok - missed it.... >:(
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: b.beardsley on May 04, 2010, 03:12:55 AM
There used to be one at Bruce Avery's in Noank. It wasn't the one at HMM, maybe it's the one in Jamestown now.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2010, 12:23:28 PM
Bill:  That very well could be.  The current owners got it from a guy who lived in Mystic.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: umills on July 13, 2010, 05:30:16 PM
We are being offered what looks to be a Marlin by a guy who bought her from the Sayville museam about 10 years ago.We are looking for a Fish to be restored by a boat building group out of the Oyster Bay WAterfront center and are wondering if anyone knew anything about this boat.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on July 13, 2010, 07:41:05 PM
Hi umills - Would you happen to have pics ? Is there a hull plate?

Of the 4 Marlins three are known only one missing...If yours is the one missing then we've found the fourth. And if you have the hull plate it would solve the missing number of "MARLIN" currently at the Herreshoff museum.

As far as Fish - there are currently several being offered for sale (three that I know of) - one is fully restored, the other two I don't know - if you contact Steve Nagy  He might be able to help.

Here is the sites "for Sale" page with the listings:

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/for_sale.php (http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/for_sale.php)
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 03:28:23 PM
This boat is named SANIBEL and is indeed a Marlin.  That means all 4 Marlins have been located.  Unfortunately, SANIBEL doesn't have a known hull number.  Two of the 4 are numbered, and we don't know which of the other two are which.  But at least all have been accounted for.     
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 04:12:21 PM
The 2 unaccounted-for Marlin hull numbers are 1421 and 1422.  1421 has a contract date of 5/9/1939, and 1422 has a contract date of 8/8/1938.  It is not unusual for later hull numbers to have earlier dates listed in the records.  It seems odd to me that contract numbers and contract dates wouldn't both be sequential, so I have always been wary of the dates that are not sequential.  So the dilemma now is:  How trustworthy are these dates?  The "new" Marlin, SANIBEL, has an old registration that dates her as 1938.  If the dates can be relied upon, that would imply that SANIBEL is 1422 and the HMM Marlin is 1421.

This also jives with what HMM says.  They aren't sure of the hull number, but claim she is from 1939.

So ........ opinions please.  Is this enough evidence to make a hull number assignment?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on July 15, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
Well the LI Museum is kind enough to pull there records for me. I'm hoping in there records they may know what Hull number - that the plate existed 20+ years ago when they had her.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 04:58:32 PM
I spoke to the current owner.  Apparently, the LIMM only owned her for a few months.  When he got it from LIMM, it was in pretty rough shape.  The first thing he did was look for the plate, to no avail.  However, the registration paperwork that LIMM had stated it is a 1938 Herreshoff.  I hope something more can be turned up, but I think we may be stuck with only the date.

The owner is quite knowlegable.  He is also the captain of CANVASBACK, the 60-foot 1909 HMCo launch.  It had a $1MM restoration a few years back.  I think Taylor & Snediker did much of the work.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on July 15, 2010, 05:00:55 PM
I'm hoping they can tell me whom they got it from as well...
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2010, 05:03:02 PM
That would be good.  They got the boat from Huntington, and it was named Tradewind at the time.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on July 15, 2010, 10:10:55 PM
Have the original owner - and a possible match - will be calling him - Let ya' know.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on July 16, 2010, 12:06:40 PM
I've been in touch with the Museum.  It seems they have some credible evidence that their Marlin is 1421.  That matches with the date evidence.  I am now pretty sure the Museum has 1421 and SANIBEL is 1422.  Score!
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on July 16, 2010, 08:41:09 PM
Wow! Great job! All the Marlins have been found. That is something! Go Registry, Go! And a big thanks to member UMills....as well as the folks at the Long Island Maritime Museum in Sayville, NY....

Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Jon Brooks on July 25, 2010, 12:13:41 AM
Thoughts on Marlins vs. Fish... I spoke with my Dad today regarding a Marlin sailing out of Islip, NY.  He was unaware of a Marlin, but did remember Fred Hard Jr. sailing a Fish down that way.  Fred Hard Jr. was the gentleman who donated the 12 1/2 to the Long Island Maritime Museum in Sayville.

There was a Marlin that sailed out of Port Washington.  This may be the boat for sale up in Huntington.  Mom and Dad sailed on here in the 1950's when she belonged to a co-worker of his at Pfizer. 

Dads opinion was that the Marlin sacrifices too much cockpit for too little cabin.  He'd go with a Fish, but still feels that the 12 is the ultimate vessel for sailing.

Jon   8)
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on July 25, 2010, 01:48:32 AM
Fred Hard owned quite a few HMCo vessels, including my Buzzards Bay 15, ELF.  He passed away a few years back at about 95 years old, after having a very full and generous life.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: umills on July 25, 2010, 03:57:54 AM
I started sailing and racing over 50 years ago and during that time I have had the pleasure of sailing almost every thing that floats.The two boats that stand head and shoulders above the rest are the E 22 and my current boat a Fish reproduction.My boat Bluefin is so fast in winds of 10 kts or less I have had people stand up at skippers meetings and say"If he sails today we won't"! The moaning on the part of the kevlar set is almost embarrassing .I sailed a h 1 1/2 for two years at Shelter Island and although they are fine in a blow I will take a light air flyer any day.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on August 19, 2010, 12:19:33 PM
May I revisit those Marlins?

On July 16, 2019 Steve wrote:
>I've been in touch with the Museum. It seems they have some credible
>evidence that their Marlin is 1421. That matches with the date
>evidence. I am now pretty sure the Museum has 1421 and SANIBEL is
>1422.

Did you find out what exactly the "credible evidence" is?

I am asking, because I am beginning to suspect that #1421s was built
in 1938 or even 1937, even though the Construction Record shows a
contract date of 5/9/1939. The Construction Record entries for the
nineteenth century usually showed as date the contract date. And boats
were usually built after a contract was made... However... The Marlins
were built during the Depression years. Three of them were given
consecutive building numbers but contract dates ranging from 1937 to
1938 to 1938. I suspect they were all built in 1937 (the Marlin
sailplan dates from January 21, 1937), one (#1420s) as a result of a
contract, the other two (#1421s and #1422s) on speculation. #1421s
would then have been sold on August 8, 1938 and #1422s on May 9, 1939.

Note that #1420s was sold for $1750 (without an engine) and #1422s was
sold for $1975 (with engine). #1421s, however, was sold for only
$1,200 (with engine!), but the Construction Record notes that she was
"Repaired". So what had happened? I can only suspect that she had been
sitting at HMCo, waiting for a buyer and got damaged in the great
hurricane of September 1938, her lower price reflecting the repaired
damage. #1422s, having been sold a month before the hurricane, was not
damaged and could be sold for the higher price.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on August 19, 2010, 08:44:33 PM
Ok I'm confused (not surprising...) If 1421 was really built in 37, sold in August of 38 - why would the record reflect 39 - Even if she was damaged in Sept 38 and re-built?

Are you saying that 1422 was sold in Aug, and 1421 sold after - why? If (I assume) 1421 was really built first or at the same time wouldn't she have been the one sold with 1422 damaged in Sept? if not then why did the buyer prefer 1422 over 1421?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on August 19, 2010, 11:31:39 PM
Interesting speculation.  My "credible evidence" is copies I have of some documents in the HMM files regarding their Marlin.  Among them is a letter from the donor referring to the boat as 1421.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on August 19, 2010, 11:53:43 PM
Adam wrote:
>Ok I'm confused (not surprising...)

Oops, my mistake! Instead of:

>#1421s would then have been sold on August 8, 1938 and #1422s on
>May 9, 1939.

I should have written:

#1422s would then have been sold on August 8, 1938 and #1421s on
May 9, 1939.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on August 19, 2010, 11:56:37 PM
Steve wrote:
>some documents in the HMM files regarding their Marlin.  Among them is
>a letter from the donor referring to the boat as 1421.

Hm, may well be. But we should note then that that is the _only_
reason why it is believed that HMM owns 1421. There appear to be no
other hints. Or not?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on August 20, 2010, 01:12:34 AM
None that I know of.  But given that it is at best a 50-50 chance, and the circumstantial evidence,  I am comfortable in taking the bet.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on August 20, 2010, 01:33:21 AM
Well both theory's are plausable....but there is no way to know unless someone finds a hull plate.

Someone needs to save that hull...hmmmmmm....
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on February 23, 2014, 01:03:22 AM
A few years have passed and I would like to revisit this thread yet
again because additional information has surfaced in the meantime.

Let's have a look at #1422s, the Marlin Cruiser built by Herreshoff in
1938 for Frank Gulden, Jr.

The 1940 Lloyds Register lists Frank Gulden as the owner of a 21ft
LOA, 16ft LWL, 7-0ft beam and 3-0ft draft boat that was built in 1938
by Herreshoff which can only be #1422s. It's name is Little Dipper.
Two years later she is listed as being owned by Stanley A. Carrington
of Islip, N.Y., now with an engine which was installed in 1942. The
1950 Lloyds still shows her as being owned by S. A. Carrington. By
1955 she is not listed anymore.

Now have a look at this thread in the Wooden Boat Forum:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142034 (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142034)

This interesting thread shows that #1422s was subsequently owned by
Frederick B. Hard, Dr. Ollie Moore, Greg Arthur, and the father of a
contributor to the thread who is identified only as Dandy. The son
still owns the boat and posted photos which clearly shows the name
Little Dipper on the transom. However, the thread also suggests that
she one carried a different name under during the F. B. Hard
ownership, possibly Nyanza.

The Herreshoff Registry for #1422s lists some of these owners
correctly, but beginning with 1972 seems to mix in another Marlin
called Tradewinds and later Sanibel. See

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/detail.php?hull=1422 (http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/detail.php?hull=1422)

If Tradewinds/Sanibel is not #1422s, which boat is it?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 24, 2014, 04:15:17 PM
My first reaction was OK then she's 1421.... BUT.... I believe the boat in question was sailed in Islip on GSB(following the WB forum thread). I believe Jon mentioned (in another thread perhaps) that his dad sailed on that one (and was unimpressed - like the 12 1/2 better). Maybe Jon can shed some light - or ask his Dad if he remembers her. His dad was Commodore of the GSBYRU  - he might remember more.

Also why this statement - "The 1940 Lloyds Register lists Frank Gulden as the owner of a 21ft
LOA, 16ft LWL, 7-0ft beam and 3-0ft draft boat that was built in 1938
by Herreshoff which can only be #1422s". Why could she not be 1421?

And one last thing.... I always was under the impression that the Marlin only had one porthole per side - The pics on WB clearly show 2. They look original to me  - but we all know these things could be modified over time - still....Along this same line of thinking - I remember reading that in the 1950's at least one non Herreshoff wood hull Marlin was built.... Could this be a 5th - one that was a non-Herreshoff build? The fact that the poster mentions blueprints makes me wonder....
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 24, 2014, 08:22:52 PM
OK so I think I stand corrected on the two porthole thing..... With that said.... I've read and re-read the WB thread - and those pics (that clearly show the name Little Dipper).... OK Am I missing something in now showing 5 Marlin?

1) 1420  Matsya owned by the Cronin's - Fully restored and in Jamestown RI....
2) 1421?  Marlin - The one sold buy HMM a few years ago..... Being restored in Newport RI By John Hedley See: http://restoringmarlin.blogspot.com/
3) 1422?  Sanibel - The one we found in Islip NY owned by Godfrey Frable
4) 1507 Yare - She's up in ME - where I think she's been for a thousand years....

So now we have "Little Dipper" - Who the owner states:   "I covered her up and had her trucked to my home in Warwick (RI). There she has since, been sheltered under plastic and the inside stripped out.
Who is she??? Number 5? Or who is Sanibel??? too many Marlins....

To complicate things.... I found this no name Marlin for sale at Northeast Boat Brokerage: http://northeastboat.weebly.com/herreshoff-marlin-class.html
Since these guys are out of ME Iím going to take a leap here and assume this is YARE? (Yes I e-mailed them to askÖ.) Or is this #6? I think Iím running out of fingersÖ.

Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 24, 2014, 10:00:07 PM
Oh boy....could we have an imposter in our Marlins? How many of these are there out there? Is Sanibel original? Or is little dipper? Are we 100% positive on "Marlin"?

From Josh Howard:

Adam,
She sold late fall.  It wasn't one of the originals Marlins and Iím not sure who actually built her. It didn't have a name or hull number, but was the exact dimensions. If I had to guess I would say it was about 40-50 years old.
The seller had no proof, but insisted it was built by the Herreshoff manufacturing Co.  After inspecting her myself I would say that definitely wasn't the case.  I spoke with Maynard Bray about the boat a few years ago after he saw it at our shop and he agreed.

I can track down the current owner if you like.
Thanks Josh
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on February 26, 2014, 01:06:37 PM
Is Josh talking about Charlie Dhyse's boat?  If so, it is definitely NOT an HMCo Marlin.  It was built by Warren Shipbuilding, later to be taken over by CCSB.

See http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=529.0 (http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=529.0)
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 26, 2014, 02:46:53 PM
He doesn't know - sounds like neither did Maynard - just that they both agreed it wasn't a Herreshoff.

But the real issue is we have at least 6 wood Marlins (7 if the boat Charlie sold is not the one from Warren Shipbuilding). Two must be repro's. One is the one Josh sold. Which is the other - Marlin, Sanibel, or Little Dipper?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 26, 2014, 03:38:49 PM
I confirmed with Josh that the hull he sold was indeed Charlie Dhyse's boat. That leaves one extra hull if I got this down right....So who is the imposter?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on February 27, 2014, 09:54:56 AM
Adam and Steve, thanks for your good research! What an intriguing
problem. Five boats competing for the space of four.

Previous comments by Steve seem to indicate that there are builder's
plates for two boats:

#1420s [Marlin Cruiser for Dr. H. D. Lloyd], Today: Matsya
and
#1507s   [Marlin Cruiser], Today: Yare

Steve, could you please confirm these builder's plates and what is the
source of information?

Next boat to deal with is #1422s Little Dipper. #1422s is recorded in
the Herreshoff Construction Record as having been sold to Frank
Gulden, Jr. under the date of August 8, 1938. The 1940 Lloyd's
Register lists Frank Gulden as the owner of a boat of a Marlin's
dimensions named Little Dipper and built by Herreshoff in 1938. The
thread in the Wooden Boat Forum
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142034 (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142034) clearly shows a
Marlin with the name Little Dipper on its transom. That thread also
mentions a blueprint with the handwritten words "Little Dipper" on it
and the name Gulden Jr. From the description that blueprint is clearly
the original HMCo Marlin  construction plan number 075-071 dated
September 2, 1938. I feel that #1422s has satisfactorily been
accounted for and that the references to "Tradewinds" and "Sanibel"
should be removed in the Herreshoff Registry entry for #1422s.

This would mean that there are now two boats competing for the HMCo
building number of #1421s:

Sanibel, the boat which was formerly named Tradewinds and seems to be
in Islip NY owned by Godfrey Frable and

Marlin, the boat sold by HMM and the subject of a blog by John Hedley at
http://restoringmarlin.blogspot.com/ (http://restoringmarlin.blogspot.com/)

It would be interesting to know more about the documentations of these
two boats to see if they provide additional clues. Steve, may you be
able to help?

Oh, and to add a little to the confusion, here is another boat that I
also can't identify: The 1940 Lloyd's Register lists Wingar II ex-
Nautilus, owned by Edgar S. DeMeyer of Groton, Conn. Her dimensions
were LOA 20-9, LWL 16-0, beam 7-2, draft 3-6 and she was listed as
having been built by Herreshoff in 1935. Her dimensions mean that she
can only be one of the four Marlins built in that time period or one
of the two Fish class boats built in that period. I suspect the former
but do not know which one of the four she might be.

For what it's worth, I am aware of only two Marlins listed in Lloyd's
Register: Little Dipper and Wingar II ex-Nautilus.

Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on February 27, 2014, 02:54:32 PM
From the builder's record, we know that there were four Marlins:  1420, 1421, 1422, and 1507.

1420 is currently MATSYA and lives on Jamestown.  This is confirmed by correspondence with the owner in 2010.

1507 is currently YARE and lives on Mt. Desert Island with the original family.  This is from HMM correspondence and corroborated by correspondence with Maynard.

That leaves two hull numbers, 1421 and 1422, and two boats without plates, MARLIN and SANIBEL.

I believe MARLIN to be 1421, based on HMM correspondence from the Kenyon family.  I also believe SANIBEL to be 1422.  The boat was acquired by a prior owner from the LI Maritime Museum, who accessioned it in 1987 as TRADEWINDS.  What I learned from this discussion is that it was named LITTLE DIPPER when Gulden owned it.

Now if only I could find the 12-1/2 once named LITTLE DIPPER !
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 27, 2014, 08:55:05 PM
OK - so the second LITTLE DIPPER - Owned by "Dandy" in RI - I will reach out to him and ask for more. Maybe we miss-interpreted what he wrote? Could it be he once owned her (from his father) and doesn't have it any longer? Could she really be SANIBEL? It seems Maynard and Josh could tell right away that the one in ME was not a Herreshoff boat (I assume by construction method) - could we ask SANIBEL's new owner to take some pics for you folks to look at? I will ask Dandy the same....I can't imagine "MARLIN" to be a repro being that she was housed at HMM - Can't imagine Halsey, Adam, a curator, or anyone else there making that mistake - though I suppose it does happen.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Erick Singleman on February 27, 2014, 09:42:58 PM
Not to confuse matters, but I was interested in a Marlin about eight years ago that was in Maine.  The owner even sent me some pictures of the boat, that unfortunately are lost on an old computers hard drive.  He was selling it for $10,000 at the time and I kick myself for not buying it then because the boat looked to be in very good shape.  It did not have a builder's plate, but from my recollection It looked like an original to me.  I do recall that the coaming/cabin trunk was painted white instead of varnished and that the hull was white with green bottom paint.  Also if I remember correctly, it may have been in the classifieds of a WoodenBoat mag. from around 2003 or 2004.  If I have time someday, I'll see if I can find the ad and maybe call the previous owner to see if I can track the boat down.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on February 28, 2014, 05:24:22 PM
Erick - If you could - it might be worth while to check those ads when you get a chance.  I'll reach out to Dandy today....

I'd like to revisit a couple of things....The record shows 4 Marlin class. How sure are we that is the case. Would there have ever been a situation that the record put down a Fish class but they were actually building a Marlin? Or would it be possible that someone brought a Fish back to HMCo. (or even a third party builder) and had it modified to a Marlin. Long Shot but just asking if anyone can see this happening.

Also I remember Jon stating that his Dad sailed on a Marlin out of Huntington LI in the 50's or early 60's maybe - a colleague of his from work I believe. SANIBEL was found in Huntington. Mr. Brooks is rather versed in things Herreshoff, I doubt he would have been thrown off by a repro... Maybe Jon can ask his Dad if he remembers her name?

   
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on March 02, 2014, 01:22:41 AM
Erick Singleman wrote:
>I was interested in a Marlin about eight years ago that was in Maine.
>The owner even sent me some pictures of the boat, that unfortunately
>are lost on an old computers hard drive.  He was selling it for
>$10,000 at the time and I kick myself for not buying it then because
>the boat looked to be in very good shape.  It did not have a builder's
>plate, but from my recollection It looked like an original to me.  I
>do recall that the coaming/cabin trunk was painted white instead of
>varnished and that the hull was white with green bottom paint.  Also
>if I remember correctly, it may have been in the classifieds of a
>WoodenBoat mag. from around 2003 or 2004.

Might it be this here?

WoodenBoat May/June 2004, p. 153:

22' HERRESHOFF MARLIN, 1947.
Bristol. Grandfather of the 12 1/2. Excellent
condition. $15,000. ME. 207-967-5357.
<lalunaazul[at]adelphia.net>.

Looks to me like the Warren Shipbuilding / Northeast Boat Brokerage
Marlin that was discussed here previously.

We still have five Marlins competing for the space of four.

And I still haven't seen credible evidence to refute my belief that
#1422s was and is Little Dipper...
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Steve on March 02, 2014, 03:47:38 PM
fyi

(http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/images/Offer_Of_Gift.jpg)
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Erick Singleman on March 03, 2014, 10:09:12 PM


Might it be this here?

WoodenBoat May/June 2004, p. 153:

22' HERRESHOFF MARLIN, 1947.
Bristol. Grandfather of the 12 1/2. Excellent
condition. $15,000. ME. 207-967-5357.
<lalunaazul[at]adelphia.net>.

Looks to me like the Warren Shipbuilding / Northeast Boat Brokerage
Marlin that was discussed here previously.

We still have five Marlins competing for the space of four.

And I still haven't seen credible evidence to refute my belief that
#1422s was and is Little Dipper...

I believe that was ad.  The email sounds familiar.  I sent a note to them at that email.  Maybe they can give us the name of who owns her now.  That is if the email is still good after all these years.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Erick Singleman on March 05, 2014, 08:14:07 PM
I heard back from the previous owner of the boat from the 2004 WoodenBoat ad.  I notified him that there was a Marlin for sale right now at the Northeast Boat Brokerage website, and he confirmed after looking at the photos that that is his old Marlin.   He told me that the boat was manufactured in 1944 by one of the Haffenreffer's after HMC was sold.  He thinks one of them tried to make a go of it building boats (was that how Qunicy Adams got started?)

I contacted Northeast, and that Marlin had just sold.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Erick Singleman on March 06, 2014, 12:03:42 AM
A little history directly from the owner of the Marlin in the 2004 WoodenBoat DERVISH

Erick, Shortly after the HMC went out of business one of the managers, Haffenreffer was his name, set up shop down the street with some of the original molds and some HMC workers joined in. Thus Dervish was produced around 1945. I never saw a plate on it or any builders mark and I went stem to stern on her. My understanding was it was sailed around Bristol, then another owner for many years in CT; then ended up in back in RI with Geoffrey Warner and family. I bought it from him. I would know the boat if I saw it of course, since sawdust and paint fumes are now part on my DNA. I have plenty of old wooden boats around still to keep me busyÖ I will look on the registry as you suggested. By the way Geoffrey Warner is still in RI I believe, the name of the town escapes me.
Daniel
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on March 10, 2014, 07:51:56 PM
So is the one Erick describes the same one built by Warren Boatbuilding? Or do we have two Marlin built by two separate non HMCo. builders?
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: HerreshoffHistory on March 11, 2014, 01:15:33 PM
Dervish, the Marlin Cruiser described by Erick Singleman is indeed the same as the one just sold by Northeast Boat Brokerage. From what I understand, she was built by Ernest Alder's Warren Boat Yard, Inc. [note: not Warren Shipbuilding] in Warren, R.I.

Until 1939 Warren Boat Yard had been known as The Alder Manufacturing Company. I cannot confirm that the Haffenreffers were involved with the Warren Boat Yard. Ernest E. Alder had been the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company's superintendent of the Wood Department in 1917. Having been built by Ernest Alder, Dervish really has a lot of Herreshoff genes in her. She is almost a Herreshoff.

All this does not change the fact that, not counting Dervish, we still have five Marlin Cruisers competing for the four building numbers assigned to the class by the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company.
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Charles Barclay on March 11, 2014, 07:55:23 PM
This is a fascinating thread. 

HH would you know if the Herreshoff Museum has the manufacturing records or would MIT's Hart Nautical Collection? 

For some crazy reason, the thought of digging through the manufacturing records intrigues me on a couple of levels.  The first is the idea of gleaning any evidence that suggests how much of the HMCo genes this late build Marlin might have in her, secondly, confirming the story the owner relayed about a late production, almost a bootleg copy, after the shop officially closed. 

Another vessel that has me interested in the late build concept, ie. what was built after the line ceased, is the last FI 31 that went to future America's Cup skipper Bob Bavier.  It's listed in the book.  But where is it? 

Which leads me to another question, I suppose for even another thread, and that is the efficacy of the Herreshoff Manufacturing methods.  We have some clues of substantial prowess.  The Mystic Seaport book from 1976 on the Columbia dinghy showed about 130 man hours on the build of the dinghy, along with a materials list.  How does that compare to today's schools of wooden boat building, or a pro, for that matter.  LFH famously noted that HMCo existed back when "there was a time when men knew what to do and they did it", so different from today when it's becoming difficult to even find shop teachers in your local high school let alone real manfucaturing work without robotics.  There is little question that the efficacy declined after NGH retired, as did the marketing prowess after JBH died.  The intriguing questions for me are why, how much, what specific areas, and to what magnitude?  The Haffenreffer's were no slouches in business.  Is there a model here for other manufacturing decline?

Musing's on a late winter morning. 
Title: Re: Marlin?
Post by: Adam on March 14, 2014, 04:07:53 PM
It's interesting to note that both Josh Howard and Maynard Bray could tell right away that the Warren boat was not an original. So maybe she wasn't as close as "She is almost a Herreshoff" infers?

Like HH says we have 4 marlin built and 6 boats known.... Who built the 5th and which one is the imposter?